ChildCare Conversations with Kate and Carrie

Episode 121: Animals and Your Program

October 11, 2022 Carrie Casey and Kate Woodward Young
ChildCare Conversations with Kate and Carrie
Episode 121: Animals and Your Program
Show Notes Transcript

In this week's episode, Carrie and Kate discuss animals, pets, and service animals in your program! Something that not all directors have experience with but that can be beneficial to your program and the children!

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Hi, welcome back Carrie and I are so glad that you're joining us. I've got Cinder and Cinder is a guest on today's episode. I'm not sure how much he's going to talk, but apparently he has an opinion and it's not necessarily that he wants to be on camera but we are going to talk a little bit about pets and pets in your classroom or even you know we might even touch a little bit on service animals because Believe it or not that's not a problem. I've actually, have come across yet, another program and it should be and why isn't it? Why do we not serve that population? Where are those kids? 


So with that Carrie. So I think pets in your school there's a whole variety of ways. People think about pets in the classroom or in their program, a lot of in-home programs. Of course, have cats 

or dogs or whatever. And it goes in and out of Vogue. You know, whether you should have pets in the classroom, I'm a strong proponent of pets in the classroom because of what it teaches the kids. So I'm going to throw it back in the UK. What are some of the things that having pets teach kids whether it's in the classroom or in their house? 


So there are all different levels of pets and educational pieces that come out of having pets. Whether it's a cat or a dog, a fish, or a lizard or a turtle. The number one thing that comes out of all of that is going to be a sense of responsibility. 


So obviously the age of the children in the classroom or in your home is going to make a big difference on what type of animal you start with. You are not going to start with a Labrador puppy. Unless you, as the adult, want to take on that project for a kid who might be three or four who wants a dog? Okay. And if you aren't sure they'll find a book and go read about it because trust me, you don't want that Labrador puppy even for a six-year-old, you know a Labrador puppy for a ten-year-old and the 10 year old wants the dog okay and you are prepared to take on all the natural consequences that come with the ten-year-old who doesn't take care of the puppy. Like The Masters. 


Yeah, so we had a friend or we have a friend. I shouldn't say we had a friend, she still exists but at her school Ray had a large dog. I don't know what kind, it was blonde. I'm not a dog person. I can't tell you what he was. He was big and blonde and he mostly functioned as a rug. He was kind of a rug dog. So the kids loved him and it was actually a selling point. To the program for a lot of parents because they didn't have pets for whatever reason maybe they lived in an apartment or whatever. And this way their kids got to have the experience of having a pet dog and they didn't have to feed it or walk it or take it to the vet and the kids. Absolutely love them. Some kids walked in, they just walked past him. No big deal. He was just part of the furniture. Other kids. It was part of their morning routine even though they could have gone into another door in the building that would take them closer to their classroom. They would usually go through the door where the dog would hang out in the morning and pet the dog as part of their morning routine and help them settle in and then they use that dog when a child would be really upset they would take that dog over and have him sit next to the child who was kind of wound up. 


Does that dog also help with like you know clean up during snack on? I doubt if rail that I doubt, if rail out that, I don't think the dog went. I was never there and witnessed that but I did witness the other things you can tell. I've had dogs that really would think that snack especially toddler snack time I'm like oh now I know why that dog is a rug because I don't move. 


He's been playing clean up at snack time so they had you know, they had an outdoor space where he could go so that if he needed to do his business it wasn't going to be on the playground and then they had the playground. So, you know, that wasn't an issue. 


So that's a wonderful example of another way of introducing disabilities and service animals because here's an animal that absolutely functioned as a therapy dog and may even have been a therapy dog, at some point in time in his life. Are certain breeds that just lend themselves to being a rug or you know a big squishy breathing teddy bear. But you know, knowing that is an option. I could absolutely see why that would have been a selling point. 


Absolutely. And you know, so the kids are getting responsibility because there would be children who, you know, their job of the week or their job of the day was to go with Miss Ray to walk the Dog, you know, they got lots of science because you know wet noses. Why is my nose not wet wise, his nose wet my Blade with his floppy ears? Why does, why does he have hair inside of his ears? All that kind of stuff. So there were a lot of science opportunities there as well. But a dog is not something that, you know, a lot of programs can have Because you have to have a yard that the dog can use. And so I think it's a good thing if you are not like I am allergic to them. So I didn't. I never stayed at Ray's very long because of the dog, but it has great science and great social, emotional elements to it. Same with cats, although cats are less likely to be Therapy animals, they're less likely, but you can have it. 


You can have bunny rabbits and there are bunny rabbits that are what I would call a free roam bunny rabbit. Not every bunny rabbit has to be in a cage. But, you know, right now we've kind of started at the higher end in the higher maintenance animals. 


So let's talk about, you know, back in the 80s and we, you know, had classrooms, who had pet hamsters and I've got some theories on that. But let's even take it back a step further. And let's talk about some of the animals that our kids had as pets or in their first classrooms. And so we had fish and we had betta fish, and we had big fish tanks and I know you've got experience with some different breeds of animals very early on that had some different kinds of issues. 


As a toddler teacher. I loved having terrariums and Roly-polies and snails in a terrarium in a toddler classroom, for one thing, they are free because you just go out into the yard. You pick up the snails and the Roly-polies and you put them in the terrarium, add some plant matter and they're happy. You just spray water in there every few days and the kids loved spraying the water in there and inexpensive low maintenance. And not a whole lot of trauma because if a snail dies, and you are not you or the teacher. If the teacher is not in a mental state to deal with talking about death and dying they can just go get another snail from the yard, right? 


When the snail dies, they can just replace snails. It's not a big deal with Roly-polies are the snails. We did betta fish, we've done. Oh, the little creepy crawly, they live in a sea show, hermit crabs. Hermit crabs are not great for a classroom because they're nocturnal. So when you turn the lights down for snack time I mean for nap time, they think it's night time and they start skittering around and they make a lot of noise. 


So maybe good for a classroom that doesn't have a nap time except they don't really do anything. So you know, what is the point of having a hermit crab or an animal that doesn't Not do anything? I don't, I'm not a, you know, we had them. That's what I can say about them. We had them. The fish were always a big hit at the school's frogs. We had frogs a couple of times. We had frogs in the fish tank, that happened. I never had birds at any of my schools, but I know programs who do have birds, and who think they're the bee's knees or turtles. Tortoises yep Turtles tortoises all kinds of different rodents, various rodents, various different reptiles, lizards snakes. We talked about turtles and tortoises but the geckos geckos. Yep. Yep that's and you know we had free-range geckos 


Okay I was thinking more like the larger scale geckos, not the little green. Ones that and brown ones that we have naturally. But let's talk a little bit about the pros and cons. I do want to talk a little bit about some of the different rodents or animals that kids might want to hold and pet. And so, let's start with what are some of the licensing requirements. Carrie related to having an animal in your program or in your classroom. They need to have all of the mandated vaccines. So your fish are fine, your snails are fine. There's no vaccine for these snails. But basically mammals and I think some birds may have some vaccines that they need. But pretty much all mammals are going to need some vaccines and you have to keep the environment clean. And you have to make sure that they do not pose a threat to the children, meaning that they're not aggressive towards the children. 


So how do you do that? What happens to Dove and how are you? Don't buy an alligator, snapping turtle for the classroom. That's not a good choice. No. Okay let's go back to that floppy dog. So let's just say this floppy dog one day and you got four kids climbing on it. You know, I got lots of opinions on that because there should have been some supervision and some other things that, you know, There's a reason why that dog. Probably if it did even growl, you know, there was probably a reason like some poor kid hit it where it shouldn't have been hit, you know, whatever it might have. Been, what are some? Are there any things from a supervision standpoint or a management classroom management? Standpoints that should probably be considered if you're thinking about having more of a free room, pet versus an aquarium pet. 


Anything that is a predator and should be treated as such. So, you know, cats, dogs, ferrets, those are predators, and they are going to sometimes react as if they're predators. So they need to be handled by, you know, there needs to be adults in space who understand how to deal with that kind of animal even Birds though will bite. 


If so many doctors and guinea. Pigs. And that's why it always cracked me up that hamsters and guinea. Pigs seem to always be in classrooms because I'm like Because if those animals aren't regularly handled, they do become bored. Aggressive all of those things. So the out. 


So there's lots of things that go into having pets, whether they're mammals, whether they're geckos, whether their fish are turtles, Carrie brought up a couple of great ones which is making sure that you have adults who understand how to care and manage. Maintain, whatever that animal is. 


So can we hire staff that need Need a service animal. As long as they meet the licensing requirements, meaning that they can, you know, see or hear you can't hire somebody who is both deaf and blind. They can be one or the other and that they can respond to children in need. So yeah, you could absolutely hire staff who, maybe, they have a seizure disorder and so they have an animal that alerts them that the seizure is coming on or that would be some visual impairment. That would probably also be a dog miniature horse. Is the other animal that can alert me to seizure disorder. So I don't know how most schools would handle having a miniature horse, though, not sure. But it's a reasonable accommodation. So you might have to figure it out. 


So, so, yeah. So there's no reason why we can't have staff with service animals. There's no reason why we should be able to take a kid with a service animal. Those are reasonable accommodations. I know that you've had kids in your program with other necessary accommodations and you were able to get additional help and support. Through nonprofit organizations, that help support and give you some additional staff specifically, for those, those specific children, which is a different episode. 


Let's not go there today because we put but, you know, let's talk about how, you know, you touched on a little bit of the science but I want to talk a little bit about just the responsibility pieces. So as you start getting kids, who are as young as two and maybe even a little younger, I'm thinking more of the fine motor skills but there's no reason why the kids in the classroom can't help with changing water in a fish tank. Why can't they be involved in prepping the water for a fish tank? So you know especially even something as simple as just goldfish, right? You can't just put in tap water, you know have them help you make that water appropriate you know. 


So again you've got some science there they can help clean all the rocks. They can help move the fish. They can help clean the tanks and they can help feed the fish. So there's a lot of responsibilities. He's that one who can go into, everybody can have a job every week. Not every day. We don't need to take care of the fish every single day. But every day during the week, in most classrooms, every kid could have something if they wanted to to do with the classroom pet. Yeah and so it definitely has a lot of help now as your kids get older. Then you can take on animals with a little more complexity or that need less maintenance. Less frequent maintenance 

just maybe a little more intense maintenance. So those Turtles those snakes some of those amphibians you know, you can decide based on your classroom, whether or not, the kids are involved, in feeding, geckos, crickets or mealworms because, you know, maybe maybe not, 


You know, it depends on the the The kids and the staff, really? Yeah, but I had another pet idea that I've never seen in a school and I want to see it. So if you have this, please like, send me pictures. I want to see an octopus at school. I want to see an octopus at school. If not, I think I'm going to have to write a book about the octopus who goes to school. I feel like this is a necessary thing. We need to have octopuses at school because those things are cool. There's 

a lot of science with an octopus. 


There is a lot of science with an octopus and there's even more signs. I mean, if you can afford and manage to have a saltwater tank. Wow. You know, you know that that's, that's that would be a lot of really fun and special animals. If you have kids with sensory issues, I do know that just having fish in your classroom, sometimes is just a wonderful experience and if you are not sure. Sure, that you or your kids are ready for an animal with any maintenance. Get one of those little betta fish with a plant because it cleans itself. It gives itself like, I mean, you don't ever have to do anything. It is a built-in terrarium ish. Yep. 


And betta fish, you know, last about two to three years at most, so it's not a long-term commitment where if you get a parrot that's a 45 year commitment, at least so yeah. Because you're probably not gonna get a baby parrot. I'm figuring, you're going to get a β€œbroken in” parrot, so you know, thinking through the lifespan of whatever Critter you're getting, my rollie pollies, and snails have a very short, very short lifespan. I can rotate those guys out. I can be like, oh it's time to release them into the playground and dump out the terrarium. The kids are fine with that if you are using a tortoise or a parrot. We've got a very different life span. A very different level of commitment, cats, and dogs were talking around, a decade and a half. Usually, if you get a broken one, maybe you have less time, you know, thinking about the lifespan of those things is part of the decision about having pets in the classroom. 


And if you are a program, that is a school year, only program. Where is that pet going? All over the summer break and over the Christmas break if you're just closed for you know a week at Christmas and a week at Spring break, you can probably find somebody who will take that pet for a week. If you're closed for a month at Christmas and three months in the summer. That's a whole other issue and I think you need to go back to my terrarium idea in case you have some rolling, bullies and snails. But again, do it, I'm telling you, it is amazing what the kids will get out of it, how it will help calm the kids. And the amount of science because you're like, oh it, I think it's time for it to rain and the kids mist the terrarium. You can have other animals in a terrarium. Those are just the ones I like because I could pick them up anywhere, but you can have other kinds of spiders. You can have other kinds of insects in a terrarium. We had a friend who had hissing cockroaches in her terrarium and didn't like one of your kids like pets. Her hissing cockroaches know we ended up adopting the gecko. 


Okay, somebody we know pets at the hissing cockroaches we got one. So I know we're talking about And I know that we've probably already lost, have lost half our listeners today because they're like, no never having a pet in my program. But if you're still listening and you're still not sure you want to have pets. I want to talk about some other options as far as introducing the kids in your program to real life animals. Not just ones in books because we do know that there's a lot of homes that don't necessarily have them especially if you have a high population of apartment complexes near you. You probably have a fairly large component of your students who have never had a pet. 


So, you know, looking at bringing in, you know, whatever zookeeper kind of program is in your community, that brings the snakes, the hissing cockroaches, the Tarantulas, all of those animals to you. They are professionals, it's a fee. But here's an easy field trip, right? Did you not have to go anywhere? Yep, and they will stay the whole day with all your kids. The second, which I love. And I think every Carnival spring fall open house. Should always have one. And that is a petting zoo. 


So, again, same kind of thing. These are, don't go for the ones that are cheap. You get what you pay for. Make sure you've got ones that I got enough animals to rotate out during the time frame you want them. So if you want them there for five or six hours, you’ve got to make sure that they got five or six hours worth of different animals because you know, the baby goat that's been there for six hours with every little kid trying to pet it, it is not going to be in a good mood at the end of the day. Yeah. Right. 


So, and some of the petting zoos have more exotic animals and some of the petting zoos are lambs and calves and chickens. And you know, they're basically a Petting Farm. But again, what an awesome opportunity. If everybody in your program does farms in October and November, what a great thing to do that last week, before going away for Thanksgiving, you know, it's already kind of a short for those kids who are there. So, you know, for those kids that are there on Monday because everybody else, you know, your program as a whole is closed from Thursday on there, Monday and Tuesday, give them an absolutely awesome experience. By giving them an opportunity to have that baby Farm come to see them. Even if all it is is baby goats. You know you can do especially the preschoolers. I bet you could probably pull off go to yoga. 


Yep, probably, goats and pajamas are absolutely adorable. And there are programs that have goats as their pets, they are an outside pet, you can have outside pets at your program. They don't have to be inside pets. We were talking mostly about inside pets, but I know of a program that has a donkey and some sort of foul. I don't remember what they have and goats and they're on like four acres or something like that. And so the critters are outside doing Critter business in the Critter space which is next to the playground. But each Last room. Oh, and a pig. And each classroom has one of those animals that they take care of and they go visit it and you know, 


Well and pot-bellied pigs are, you know, domesticated and or animals and so just like we talked about the free rein. Massive rabbits. I know that those have specific names as far as breeds but they're the rabbits are bigger than my poor cat and you know so you've got those and then you've got the pot-bellied pigs that only get to be a certain size and they're all. So you can train them, they walk on leashes, they do all of that same stuff. So yeah. 


So you could have pets that are outside pets again. If you're still with us, we are evangelists for pets because of all of the wonderful things kids learn about them: empathy science, caregiving, self calming. All of those things are wonderful. And it's much less expensive than a lot of other options. 


Yeah, and it's so funny because you talk, you always talk and go down that route. With. That's, and I was talking about the responsibilities and the learning to clean up after somebody else. Because again, I don't know. Maybe that's indicative of my children. Like, you know, and I've met kids and I thought to myself, you did not have enough cats and dogs in your life because you don't understand why you need to pick up your dishes regularly. You know, it's like, 


Yeah, I mean and that's, that's true too. So there's lots of things that kids can get out of them. I just want you guys to consider it if you thought we were crazy on this episode, we apologize. We'll get back to our regularly scheduled program next week. 


Next week, we will actually be talking about diversity and inclusion so that's what will be on tap for next week. So thank you for writing through our pet filled world. World. And we hope to see you next week here on childcare conversations with Kate and Carrie.